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Brian Sullivan's
Random Musings
 

(Robert Scoble has evaluated Netmeeting 3.0 against this list and published his results.)

I have been keeping a personal wish list of features/changes that I would like to see in future versions of NetMeeting and supporting products. I am presenting the list here in no particular order other than most recently received first, with no particular emphasis on how to do it or whether it can be done.

This list is no longer being maintained and is presented here for historical reasons only.

bulletApril 7,1999 (Doug k)
  1. When I'm watching someone else's activity, either just when sharing, or
    when fully collaborating, it would be great if I could tell what mouse
    buttons they're clicking e.g. could my pointer / cursor change to a
    different icon to indicate which buttons are currently down?
  2. It'd be nice to be able to say: automatically share out any new window
    created henceforth on this machine.
bulletMarch 31,1999 (Stephanie Booth)
  1. I have one wish for the moment (I'm just starting with NM) - if it doesn't happen to exist without me knowing about it: Add a voicemail feature! there.... simple isn't it?
bulletFebruary 10,1999 (Brian Russer)
  1. I would like to see MS Netmeeting supported on the Macintosh platform. If it is already, I have not been able to find it.
bulletNovember 18,1998 (Christian Weiler)
  1. A powerful ActiveX API including a professional documentation.
  2. An ActiveX API which supports data events for a usual NM chat session!
bulletOctober 18,1998
  1. Allow a more detailed selection of Categories listed. Now you can only narrow the directory list displayed by one sub-group, i.e. Personal, Business, or Adult. For example, I would like to be able to display only those users with cameras in all three categories.
  2. Allow logging on to a new ils more efficienctly, without having to go through Change My Information, select Calling, change ils, etc. A simple "LOG ON" box could be added to the existing Category/Server line.
  3. Display more history about calls received, i.e. email and IP address used, with user ability to block this information like Caller ID blocks.
  4. Ability to sort by M/F/Couple, and Personal/Business/Adult.
  5. Display info about video software a user has, i.e whether they are using NetMeet 2.1 It has been very frustrating and time consuming in attempting to contact users listed on the ils but then to find out they don't have NetMeeting, but are, for example, being listed by Intel's secondary listing service. At minimum this info should be added to properties.
  6. Ability to designate Active/Nonactive users on the speed dail list. I don't need to know about all the users on my speed dail list all the time. This would speed up the process of updating the speed dail list.
  7. Ability to add personal notes into the Speed dail information area.
  8. Ability to stop sending video, not just pausing video. This may improve bandwidth available for better audio when ISP system servers get slow.
  9. I would love to see the trouble shooting tools previously "wished" by Bryan Chee of the Microsoft NetMeeting Team, especially framerate and bandwidth data.
  10. Add a mini-tool bar to the Toolbar, with tray icon symbols for Directory, Speed Dail listing, Current Call, History. This would free screen space for Directory listing info. Other mini-tools could be Do Not Disturb, Full/Half Duplex, Add to Speed Dail. This mini-tool bar area could be user defined, based on existing NetMeeting functions.
bulletOctober 6,1998 (Glenn Humplik)
  1. Support for DTMF when using Net Meeting through an H.323 Gateway.
  2. Timer that gives you the amount of time spent connected in a call.
  3. Speed dial description field, so you can write in personal notes about people you save in your speed dial.
  4. Better ils server lists, a better way to add, edit and remove ils servers in your listing.
  5. Image field that you can add to your personal description.
  6. A method that another Net Meeting user could push web pages to you while in a connection with him, perhaps a small built-in web browser.
  7. Ability to place still images in the video box
bulletSeptember 26,1998 (Pete Basofin)
  1. Expand NM to allow small-group conferencing. Let's have a system that allows up to ten people to speak together. At any given moment every user would see a paused video of the other participants not speaking. Only the designated speaker is heard and his/her video is "live." The designated speakership can shift from person to person. A "moderator," the participant who created the conference, would have the discretion to pick which participant is the designated speaker. Maybe a small color cue could appear under the image of the participant when he/she wants to speak--sort of a digital raising of hands.
  2. Expand the above multiparty conference to allow many "lurkers" who could watch the discussion group. In effect this would allow an audience (up to 1,000?) to view this virtual panel. To allow for Q&As from the audience, the system should be able to allow an audience member to temporarily join the panel.
  3. Develop a system of ILS servers which organizes people by interest/topic, much like IRC does.
bulletSeptember 26,1998 (John K.)
  1. Top on my wish list is to support at least audio through SLIRP, a slip emulator. If ol' 16-bit Freetel can do it, why can't NM? See www.freetel.com if unfamiliar.
bulletSeptember 19,1998 (Carlos Canto)
  1. A Male/Female listing in the Directory.
  2. A way to display more fully the specs of the caller (i.e. audio, video, name, and gender). I know I'd like to know if the person calling me has a camera or not and whether it's a guy or girl.
bulletAugust 6,1998 (Brian Sullivan)
  1. Add support for showing multiple video windows for "continuous" presence.
  2. Allow more than one call to be in progress at one time --allow calls to be linked or conferenced in to one call and separated.
  3. Allow video windows to be displayed with no controls - controls pop up on mouse enter ( a la Netshow, RealVideo)
  4. Support sending multiple video sources from multiple video capture devices
  5. Support sending multiple audio sources ( mixed or as separate streams)
  6. Support Real Video, NetShow and Media Player files as sources.
  7. Allow audio and video codec reselection while in a call.
  8. Have a mini control panel to control audio, video from the system tray.
bulletAugust 3,1998 (Eric Monier Annecy from a newsgroup posting)
  1. ...should be a way to refuse a call but having the chance to give a message or a reason to the caller. This can't be done as long as I know. It's sad that you can't tell the one calling "sorry, I'm busy please call again later " or what ever it is...
bulletAugust 2,1998 (Eric C from a newsgroup posting)
  1. There are two little features I find very annoying on netmeeting. First is
    how difficult it is to choose which server you want to log in and what you
    do once you have. You have to go to Tools, options, Calling, blah blah and
    change the server from there, then you have to go to Call, Log onto....etc
    etc. That sounds like alot, especially when the ILS's are busy and
    impossible to get on, you have to do this when you want to try another.
    Perhaps the boys at M$ should make a log on part similiar to the ILS
    directory listing. Type in the name of the directory, and PRESTO! You're
    logged in. Anyone agree?
  2. My other complaint is how netmeeting adjusts the volume. Not only does it
    change the volume for my WAV part, it changes the master as well as if they
    were one bar. This gets really aggrevating because when I log out, I had to
    move my way setting all the way, and the master back down. Otherwise other
    programs almost blow my speakers. You'd think they'd set it to adjust the
    wav only. Perhaps in the next version
bulletJuly 10,1998 (Jonathan & Janie Donaldson)
  1. Allow user to specify IP address for Netmeeting to give to other side to set up UDP ports. This would allow people behind NAT to use audio/video.
bulletJuly 6,1998 (Brian Sullivan)
  1. Some way of allowing the addition of information about individuals that can be added to speeddial and history information
  2. A way for the caller to send more detailed information about themselves (even if call is not answered), perhaps via the already existing vcard.
  3. A way to digitally sign calls so that caller ( or at least calling station owner) can be positively identified.
bulletJune 23,1998 (Francisco Rodriguez)
  1. I am interested in enhancing netmeeting's whiteboard or replacing it if possible. I know that Databeam has MeetingTools but it does not meet my needs.
  2. Some things that I am looking for are Twain support and some advanced functions like easier eraser.
bulletJune 12,1998 (Tyree)
  1. First if they could make Netmeeting work with the video capture card I have, the Diamond MM DTV 102.
  2. Secondly, if there could be a control that will let you show that you have video by sharing another application, like my capture card. If I start Netmeeting first, it takes control of the capture card but won't work with it. It won't release the capture.dll afterwards. The same thing happens if I start the video capture software first. It won't release it afterward to Netmeeting. While using my video capture software I'd like to see a way to let others know I have video. When I sign on to an ILS using my video capture software, Netmeeting shows no video
bulletJune 10,1998 (Brian Sullivan)
  1. Some way to control the maximum frame rate for video ( a slider maybe) that would allow maximum rates from 1 every minute to 30 fps or a similar range.
bulletJune 9,1998 (Dr David Topps, Assistant Professor, Dept of Family Medicine, University of Calgary)
  1. The biggest thing that I would like to see implemented is for the Whiteboard to Import/Export other files formats apart from WHT. It would be useful for instance to be able to import a BMP or GIF to act as a background template on which to doodle in Whiteboard. Of course you can do it with Clipboard, but I feel it should be integrated into Whiteboard.
  2. The second thing would be to retain mouse control, when one's own mouse cursor is out of the NM active area. ie if I want to do something quick and simple on my local machine, but do not want to wrest mouse control away from the remote user, it would be neat if you could somehow have a schizophrenic mouse ( or multiple personality, whatever) ie one that you could control the cursor locally for stuff that is not in the area where the remote user is working.
  3. What would be really neat would be to tie voice recognition into the process? (Yeah I know that would really tax the CPU but it's time we gave Intel something to sink its teeth into) What I mean by that is having a text display of what the other person is saying...this would help with connections in which the audio is a bit flaky...with a visual prompt, there would be less of the "what was that again?" back and forth. It would not have to be so accurate as current Voice Recognition software, because there would be a real brain at the other end interpreting the output. So you could use a stripped down version which would need less horsepower, and could run faster so as to keep up the remote user's speech. Just a thought...
  4. Will the new Win 98 capability to split output over several screens be feasible in NM? I find its one of the few applications where i am really struggling for screen real estate at my end. It would be handy to have the video on one screen (let's face it, we only occasionally glance at it anyway), whiteboard and chat on another (chat is really useful if the connection is flaky...it would be handy to keep half an eye on it for messages, without having it clutter up the main screen. Then you could keep your main screen free for applicaiton sharing, which would then mean that the remote user would also have less clutter on his screen.
  5. Along similar lines, it would be handy to be able to designate which portion of one's own screen should appear on the remote users screen. Then you could keep this area uncluttered and it would result in less updating at this end, of stuff he doesn't need. It would also tie in with the schizophrenic mouse idea. Remote user has mouse control of the cursor within this designated area, but you still would retain local control of a mouse pointer for local activities, outwith this shared area.
bulletJune 6,1998 (Brian Sullivan)
  1. Some way for the called person to know how the caller initiated the call ( if a .CNF file - a "memo" field that is passed and displayed to caller and called person that indicates which .CNF file) or if a directory initiated call -the ILS server name or if caller supplied address -- that info. ( I find I get calls initiated on the Web and don't know whether user is calling me as "webmaster" or some other reason)-- a type of distinctive ring type service.
  2. Allow a call to be put on hold with the caller knowing-- to check out callers information ( or have it available as a "Call display" type info)-- will require that call not be cancelled as it is now if you don't answer after the designated number of rings
bulletJune 5,1998(Robert Scoble)
  1. COLLABORATION EVENT NEEDED: When I work I find I often send documents, pictures, and other files to other people via e-mail and then I call them on the phone to talk about those documents. Why not send a document and along with it a "NetMeeting Event." For instance, I'd like to send a Word document that, when opened, would automatically start NetMeeting up on both of our machines and make a connection. This might be impossible to do, but maybe you could build it into Office 2000.
  2. ALLOW NETMEETING TO RUN WITHOUT BEING "SETUP" -It's a real pain that I can't connect to someone's NetMeeting without them first being forced to "setup" and configure their NetMeeting. I'll bet that 80% of the people who have NetMeeting on their computers have never run it, don't know what it does, or ran it and saw that it required entering a whole bunch of stuff and gave up.

    Why not instead make it so that I could call someone's NetMeeting and use the chat, whiteboard, and application sharing features, and then if I try to use Audio it should tell the guy that he'll need to first setup his audio card. It should be possible to setup the system even while connected. Same for video.
  3. NETMEETING SHOULD -- BY DEFAULT -- ANSWER CALLS -NetMeeting -- by default -- should answer calls (and always be on once loaded into the system), but should allow users to easily change the configuration so that it won't accept calls. This is much like ICQ, which always is on and always lets people add you into their lists unless you tell it not to. The reason that very few people use NetMeeting here is that very few people run NetMeeting so that it's always on a bad feedback loop. Until EVERYONE is using NetMeeting in a corporation, it'll never get used. Now, if you start with those two assumptions (NetMeeting should always be on and that it should always answer calls) you'll need to radically rethink NetMeeting so that no one is pissed that it behaves that way (and so the few people who are gonna be pissed can turn off or change those behaviors).

bulletJune 5,1998 (Ddoucet)
  1. It would be really nice if Microsoft included support for the Matrox Media XL video capture card with the next release of NetMeeting.
bulletJune 4,1998 (Joel Krauska)
  1. Develop a MCU Component (Allow for Conferences)
  2. Allow User to See Current Active Codec and Perhaps Change Codec on the Fly
  3. Work with other vendors to help insure interoperability. (I cannot cross call from any other products.)
bulletJune 4,1998 (Renato Aranghelovici LAN Manager, WEB Master Computer Science Dept. University of Craiova)
  1. Broadcasting audio (one to many)
  2. A complete ActiveX Control, with all the features of the COM object
  3. All the customisation of the NM available as properties of the control above
  4. better collaboration - only with selected persons
  5. more control of video stream (frames/second)
  6. the host of the conference have better control: moderate, assign user rights and privileges (see only, hear only, keyboard locking)
  7. a better way to integrate the video window in an application
bulletJune 4,1998 (John White of Streamline Small Business Support Centre -Australia)
  1. I have one wish:  multipoint audio capacity alongside chat, the whiteboard and document/application sharing.  Multipoint video would be a bonus but I gather bandwidth then really becomes an issue.
bulletJune 3,1998 (Brian Sullivan)
  1. Create a method for user control over ringing on calls - control the ringing wav and the number of rings before a call is refused.
  2. Allow setting/unsetting of the "Do not disturb" state from the minimized NetMeeting icon in the systray.
bulletMay 31,1998 (Brian Sullivan)
  1. Create meeting support toolkit ( with things like voting, selecting "picks" from a list, timers to show current time, meeting running time and time left in agenda, controls for meeting facilitator to silence or allow talking or public chatting)
  2. Better participant fact sheet viewing - perhaps allowing pictures, location, local time.
  3. A whiteboard that acts like a flip chart - allowing a current page to be written to (maybe with a controllable "marker" where only the person holding the marker can write-- all others can view), and tear off pages that can be viewed at any time.
bulletMay 30,1998 (Brian Sullivan)
  1. Allow better control of collaboration -allow collaboration only with selected trusted individuals in the meeting (maybe allow "owner" to pass control).
  2. Prevent or manage certain destructive behaviors ( deleting files etc.) during collaboration.
  3. Have an instant off button for collaboration.
  4. Make file system read only during collaboration.
bulletMay 29,1998 (Brian Sullivan)
  1. Publish better information on the format of .CNF files
bulletMay 28,1998 (Brian Sullivan) triggered by a newsgroup question
  1. Allow 16 bit and higher colour in share and collaboration (perhaps under user control)
bulletMay 28,1998 (received by email)
  1. I have one wish (which if it is met then maybe I will have more) - Netmeeting should work regardless of the fonts in the system. I can't strip my system of fonts which no other software package has problems with just to run netmeeting.
bulletMay 27,1998 (Bryan Chee)- Microsoft Netmeeting Team (taken from Deja News- originally posted 1997/10/21)
  1. add/remove ILS directory entries
  2. digital ID / encryption for secure conversations
  3. ICQ equivalent component
  4. Mac version of NetMeeting
  5. multi-point audio / video (many to many)
  6. diagnostic and troubleshooting tools (video framerate, bandwidth detection / information - netmedic, hardware information of machines in conference, self test of core audio / video components used by NM, "debug" type of log file)
  7. reinstate modem to modem (PSTN) or provide an A/V modem to modem solution w/o internet access / dependancy
  8. better anti-echo algorithm
  9. "Netshow" broadcasting of video / audio (one to many)
  10. test server / client ensuring that NetMeeting installed properly
  11. adding comments to speeddials and history - receiving and entering more information into the history (log time, length of call, personal information)
  12. integrate Netmeeting entries into address book of outlook/outlook express - ability to add more information about the contact
  13. better control over of the conference - controls to moderate and spectate users in the chat (IRC type chat), whiteboard, and application sharing. - also abilities to disable components for that netmeeting session only (essentially system policies for the meeting
  14. answering machine - recieve audio, voice, text messages when not at machine (video / audio email)
  15. able to save whiteboard contents in other formats (jpg, tiff, gif)

 

bulletMay 27,1998 (Peter Dauwe - Gent University - Faculty of Applied Sciences) posted in the NetMeeting Mail List
  1. a simple way to conrtrol the NM UI, in particular: a way to prevent it from coming up when a Conference Manager object is initialized;
  2. documentation for the VBScript interface;
  3. a simple way to manipulate the NM videowindows (put them anywhere in the UI you created yourself, e.g. a webpage)
  4. a way to disable the security check ("Conference manager security information" "This page contains etc... ")
bulletMay 26,1998(Robert Scoble) - posted in NetMeeting Mail list
  1. Buy ICQ and put it into the product. I'm very serious. ICQ has very cool features that NetMeeting DESPERATELY needs (for instance, the ability to refuse a call with a customized reason).
  2. Let me accept video, text, and voice messages from people when I'm not at my desk.
  3. Come out with a multipoint system so that I can have groups of people with all features of NetMeeting enabled.
  4. Give me much more detailed information about the network (the Intel Connection advisor is lame). I wanna know all sorts of advanced stuff. Buy NetMedic and put that kind of functionality into the product.
  5. Put an anti-noise and anti-echoing algohritm into the audio so that my fan noise doesn't get sent and my friends don't hear themselves when I use speakers.
  6. Make it much easier to turn on and off my Microphone (mute).
  7. Have my history show the IP address and ALL the information about the person that they entered into NetMeeting. Have an advanced history mode where the user could choose to pass along even more info.
  8. Allow me to put AVI files into the outgoing video area and repeat them so I could put advertisements or other things into that area.
  9. Tell me the frame rate I'm getting.
  10. Allow me to put titles and graphics into the video stream.
  11. Allow all camera users to zoom, pan, tilt the camera like the Winnov Videum AV allows you to.
  12. Pass along information about the hardware, like the video capture device name, the sound card name, and the processor speed.
  13. Give me a "highway sign" type of message where NetMeeting can tell me "traffic jam ahead" and tell me what to do about it. It could also tell me to choose a smaller size of video or to turn it off or other "tips" about how to improve my present performance. On the other hand, if I'm on a LAN using small video and fastest quality, it could tell me "open freeway ahead--turn up your quality" type of messages so I'm always making best use of NetMeeting's size and quality. BETTER YET, make Netmeeting do that AUTOMATICALLY. Yeah, it might freak you out if your video window all of a sudden zoomed to get bigger cause you have more bandwidth, but that would be cool. It could even sense that another window is on top of my video window and stop accepting video packets for that moment, which would save my bandwidth for other things. You could use that feature to tell people who are moving a lot that their video would work better if they weren't moving so much, etc.
  14. Allow me to e-mail video messages compressed with NetMeeting's video and audio codecs.
  15. Have an "advanced mode" where geeks like me can see and play with every last property, and an "easy mode" for my grandma.
  16. Make the SDK better and make it completely available to both VB and Java users. (We all know that those two languages are gonna be the ones of choice for productivity programmers from now on).
  17. Because I expect to see multi-video systems soon for NetMeeting, have motion-detection built in to protect bandwidth. If nothing moves, pause the video so it doesn't take any bandwidth up.
  18. Give the interface a more Office 97 feel. So many users are forced to use Word and Excel that they feel more comfortable with those interfaces. If you can't do that, then go for consistency with all Microsoft products. It really sucks to have a different interface (toolbars and menus) for every different Microsoft product. Pick one style and make all of them work that way.
  19. Allow me to record my NetMeeting's audio and video.
  20. Get rid of NetMeeting's proprietary chat and go with a standard IRC type. For instance, why don't we have ComicChat's features inside of NetMeeting's chat? Why can't we use NetMeeting to join an IRC chat?
  21. Let me pass compressed pictures in the whiteboard and separately too. I'd really like to be able to pass bigger images than the CIF size that NetMeeting currently allows. For instance, I just got some pictures of my son on PhotoCD, which goes up to 5000x5000 pixels. Now, I know 5000x5000 is too big, but I'd like to be able to send images of 1024x768 across using JPEG compression. That'd be really cool.
  22. Let me dock the chat window right onto NetMeeting's main interface. Why should I need to switch windows again just to type a quick message to someone?
  23. Let me send URLs to other people. In fact, let me "force" my partners to go to those pages. (There's a reason for doing that, maybe I'm giving a class and I want to show everyone a different page now).
  24. Let me put OLE objects on the whiteboard (Excel spreadsheets and graphs and Word documents and PowerPoint presentations).
  25. Let me put HTML (All the latest stuff, including DHTML) into the chatWindow.
  26. Let me add and remove ILS servers just by clicking on a Webpage listing of them (or right-clicking on the list).
  27. Rethink the whole ILS server concept. It ain't working. If it were, I and nearly every serious NetMeeting users wouldn't be using ICQ right now. Whatever you replace it with, make it scalable; make it more informative; make it more customizable; make it less easy to put a fake address into (show certificated users only, for instance). I could go on all night about what's wrong with the ILS system.
  28. Keep improving audio and video performance. 2.1 is pretty darn good in this area, but until it's like our telephone and our TV users will still complain. Users want no audio delay, no echo, no "breaking" in audio. They also want full-screen, sharp video, with more than 20 frames per second. That's an extremely tough challenge, but if we really want to meet user expectations that's what we need.
  29. Come up with some "NetMeeting Games" that users can play against each other when online. It'd be cool if we could play card games, Monopoly, or some other simple games against each other while online.
  30. Integrate voice recognition and control into NetMeeting. Since I'm already getting used to talking to the computer now, why can't I say "NetMeeting Share Application XXX" and have it do it without having me touch the keyboard?
  31. Allow it to share high-performance applications like video games, CAD projects, and other things that use all the latest "X" technology fromMicrosoft.
  32. Allow me to remotely control camera so that I can brighten, change contrast, change audio level, and do other things on my PARTNER'S system. In fact, let me take nearly complete control of his NetMeeting, if he gives me permission to do that stuff. Heck, we can already share all sorts of different applications, but did you notice that you can't share NetMeeting itself? Hmmm.
  33. Let me put a "live" picture of myself into the ILS servers (or whatever replaces them). That way a user could see that I'm at my desk and ready to take a call.
  34. Integrate NetMeeting much more into the Web experience itself. I'd like to see WebPages where I could click on a link and see a customer service agent at Expedia running NetMeeting and talk with her. The current SDK is completely inadequate for that kind of work. We need HTML control (along with VB5, Java, and VBScript) of every single element in NetMeeting. I should be able to have a Whiteboard stuck right into a Web page for instance. The chat control should be the same way. Application programmers should be able to completely control and integrate NetMeeting from their own applications. That isn't the case today.
  35. Hook the ILS server (or its replacement) up with a Map site. I should be able to right-click on a user's name and choose "See where they are" and http://www.mapquest.com or an equivilent should pop up with a map showing me their city and some other views. I'm sick of talking with people in some different part of the world and having no clue where that country is (yes, I'm a stupid American, but believe me, my knowledge of geography is tons better than the average clueless Joe around here).
  36. Allow vendors like Winnov to "hook stuff into NetMeeting." Microsoft got rich by allowing this to happen with Visual Basic. Programmers could build little tools that did cool things to Visual Basic. Same thing should be able to happen with NetMeeting. For instance, if Microsoft didn't want to build a zoom control, why shouldn't a company like Winnov be able to build one and sell it for, say, $10? Obviously this means really thinking ahead and giving programmers COMPLETE access to the NetMeeting APIs. It is VERY important that they make these API's available through ActiveX Control and Java controllable interfaces. If a VB5 programmer can't build rich controls for NetMeeting, this idea will never bear any fruit.
  37. Allow me to call an H.320 or an H.324 user. That means I want to be able to call a PictureTel machine from NetMeeting, and I also want to be able to use NetMeeting to call modem-to-modem.
  38. Pocket NetMeeting for Windows CE. I want to use my CE device to call my NetMeeting friends.
bulletMay 26,1998 (Brian Sullivan)
  1. a mini conference server that can be run stand-alone or as a companion to NetMeeting (on Win95/98 or NT) that will allow multiparty (maybe only 4 or 5) audio and perhaps video (I consider this decidedly less important)
  2. a way to turn off clipboard sharing (or at least make users more aware of it) -- it could be dangerous (a nice feature though don't take it away)
  3. a mini ILS type server that would allow security (password based use?) and a small number of registered users
  4. a better ILS server that is scalable and would allow ICQ type functionality and size
  5. some sort of echo canceling capability
  6. ability to record/playback audio and video in NetMeeting "stream"
  7. better support for NetMeeting users behind NAT routers/firewalls
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